Curse

Konig Des Todes · Dec 16, 2008, 11:10 AM // 11:10

While looking through the wiki out of research for a fan-fiction I am writing, I noticed something on Grenth's page.

It seems odd to me, that this Mural of Grenth is the only one with Grenth holding massive amounts of bodies - or parts of bodies.

I know that could be because he is the God of Death, but it just seemed strange that no other depiction of him has Grenth holding bodies or body parts.

The only other depiction of Grenth that has him with bodies is the statue of Grenth. And the Prophecies manuscripts explain this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grenth description

Often, there are followers at his feet, grasping toward his open, clawed hands, clamoring for the powers the unforgiving deity may feel so inclined to heap upon his subjects.

But even then he is not holding anything, they go to him.

So this got me thinking, why is this the only depiction of the god of death being less justice like, as holding heads doesn't really fit the idea of being a just god of death to me, it fits more of a "I just massacred these people" idea.

Grenth is always shown as a a just version of death, hence the stain glass mural where he has wings. In the other mural of Grenth, he is just standing there, much more peaceful looking than the Gandara depiction.

With that I than thought, perhaps this is actually a depiction of Dhuum. The looks are too similar that people would think it to be Grenth, this I know, but what if that is just the look the God of Death must take.

If you look closely at this mural, unlike the others, the face does not look like a mask. What if this was Dhuum's real appearance, and the skull face of Grenth is a taunt at, the once thought to be dead, Dhuum?

I have always thought that, like Abaddon, the knowledge of Dhuum was erased from the world, which is why we know nothing of him except via Underworld and Realm of Torment quests.

What if this is something that escaped that removal like the depiction of Abaddon, and the thought of Grenth's depiction came from this. Afterall, only the murals, not the statues, depict him with a skull.

I know this is a stretch, but the thought came to me, so I am curious what are the thoughts of others?

Free Runner · Dec 16, 2008, 12:03 PM // 12:03

I....i cant see how that mural makes him seem unjust especially as the god of death. It looks like hes basicly sheparding the dead. I dont think i've ever seen a Canthan mural of Grenth but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Factions Manuscript

The Canthan version of Grenth stands astride a small mountain of the dead, but in Canthan art the faces of these corpses are always averted from the god of death, as if in shame, to distinguish these enslaved dead from the “living” ancestor spirits.

Grenth may be much more of a just god than Dhuum but that quote shows that holding corpses under his cloak is merely a party trick compared to standing on a mountain of enslaved corpses. In the end it appears to be how the artist depicts the god - Tyrian murals show him as a just god of death, Canthan murals depict him as the true keeper of the dead and Elonian murals show him with the dead under his cloak - again the true keeper and shepard of the dead.

Also he looks just the same as in all other murals - the mask looks the same but just a little more detailed (which can be expected since all the murals differ from each other).

Quote:

Statues of Grenth depict the god with the body of a man and the skeletal head of a drawn-faced beast

And the statues do depict him with a skeletal head but later versions have been much more detailed.

Also i was always under the impression that there were always 5 gods in that plaza and Abaddons Mural was later added by Varesh (so its a new mural). My reason for thinking this is because its called the Plaza of the Five Gods and the Abaddon mural seems to be unfinished. So nothing actually escaped.

Kerwyn Nasilan · Dec 16, 2008, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Well Kourna is a military nation so they may have a more gruesome expectation of grenth.

Breakfast Mc Rit · Dec 16, 2008, 02:47 PM // 14:47

This doesn't look like he's holding bodies to me. It looks more like he's shielding or protecting his souls. I say souls because if you look at the mural to Balthazar and compare the skulls, these look distorted and agonizing.

This looks almost like a shepherd and his flock; an angry, defensive mother with her children, even. Granted, the depiction of twisted souls and a god such as Grenth will tend to look much more sinister.

smilingscar · Dec 16, 2008, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Keep in mind also that Kormir took over Abaddon's powers and didn't have to change her basic appearance in alignment with his.

Capua · Dec 16, 2008, 05:30 PM // 17:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

This doesn't look like he's holding bodies to me. It looks more like he's shielding or protecting his souls. I say souls because if you look at the mural to Balthazar and compare the skulls, these look distorted and agonizing.

This looks almost like a shepherd and his flock; an angry, defensive mother with her children, even. Granted, the depiction of twisted souls and a god such as Grenth will tend to look much more sinister.

I thought exactly this, too. I would even go as far as to say he is embracing them.

Konig Des Todes · Dec 16, 2008, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

-snip-

Hmmm, note to self: do not make threads at 5 in the morning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

This doesn't look like he's holding bodies to me. It looks more like he's shielding or protecting his souls. I say souls because if you look at the mural to Balthazar and compare the skulls, these look distorted and agonizing.

This looks almost like a shepherd and his flock; an angry, defensive mother with her children, even. Granted, the depiction of twisted souls and a god such as Grenth will tend to look much more sinister.

Never really thought of that. But I can see where you get that. And it does make sense.

sabriel warmonger · Jan 21, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

could i point out that grenth only has 4 fingers in this mural wich is becular hes missing his thumb and in the Mural in the Catacombs he clearly has one also this mural shows the hand being skeletal wich to me hints at something like a linch (whos to say a lich couldnt become a god?) but his statues depict a old man most likely the form he prosented him self to Desminawich would make sense to me. im my opinion the depictions from Gandara, the Moon Fortress. seem to be more acurate than most
(just noticed that just below his face/mask apears to be a jaw not unlike a goats jaw sori i hunt a lil it might just be my eyes playing tricks on me)

Free Runner · Jan 21, 2009, 07:44 AM // 07:44

He actually does have thumbs in the picture but they are hidden behind his fingers in a kind of clenching motion. You can just see the joint of it on his right hand. And i think its been mentioned in his descriptions that he has skeletal hands - and as for the statue i think its supposed to actually be depicting his normal look. The thing many take for a beard looks a little like his "beast" head with the split coming up the middle.

Operative 14 · Jan 22, 2009, 06:41 AM // 06:41

This may just be me seeing things that aren't there, but...

Up there, to the right of the moon (I assume it's a depiction of the moon), Do I see the multi-eyed face of Abbadon? That being the case, it looks like Grenth is shielding his followers from Abbadon.

Does seem like a bit of a stretch though.

Breakfast Mc Rit · Jan 22, 2009, 10:47 AM // 10:47

I don't see a face.

If that concept was going to be taken the artist would have given Abaddon an actual presence in the mural. But since there is pretty much nothing there and nothing to really attract your attention to the area, it's safe to say Abaddon isn't there.

assassin shaun · Jan 22, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

anybody thought that it might not be grenth?

may be the one he took over from (dhumm i think it was)

just a possibility?

Free Runner · Jan 22, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by assassin shaun

anybody thought that it might not be grenth?

may be the one he took over from (dhumm i think it was)

just a possibility?

Yeah the OP did. Infact if you actually read the thread you will notice thats what it is about....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

I don't see a face.

Yep i dont see a face ether.

Operative 14 · Jan 22, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Mostly it's not the face I see, just the pair of three diagonal lines that are reminiscent of Abbadon's eyes. Looking at it now (After I've had a good nights sleep) it is somewhat harder to make out, though I can still see it.

I'm not saying it's definitely Abbadon or saying it has any significance mind you, it was just a weird observation I made.

Konig Des Todes · Jan 22, 2009, 07:14 PM // 19:14

O14, as I don't see the face either, I think you should copy the image into paint or something and outline the face then repost it.

T1Cybernetic · Jan 23, 2009, 04:19 PM // 16:19

That is a cool looking pic to be honest

Spooky...

Spike Stritter · Jan 24, 2009, 06:12 AM // 06:12

IMO the skull does look like a mask only because his eyes look like they go deeper into the skull since there so small

but then again its not really a human...so his eyes can just be that small in general.